Dubya is not a liar
February 1, 2006 OK, personally I think of Bush as a murderer. He started a war based on deception ...he never said that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11, but he implied it over and over by mentioning Saddam and 9/11 together ...and of course the whole WMD deception. Thousands have died (Americans, Iraqis, and coalition partners), for Bush's war started on false pretense.
And Bush - through inheritance - stands to make a handsome sum of money in war profits, since his dad has been heavily involved with The Carlyle Group (Bush senior retired in Oct 2003).
The Iraq war and Bush's statements about it are just one of a series of deceptions from Dubya. But he rarely tells an outright lie; he says things that are usually literally true, but intentionally misleading. Well, personally I couldn't stomach watching and listening to the SOTU address last night; the man makes me sick. I think I lasted about 3 minutes. But fortunately the good folks at FactCheck.org (who rip apart misleading statements from any party) have posted an analysis of the speech.
The Culture of Corruption and the Dubya Deceptions haven't changed a bit.
Politics
Reader Comments (16)
Mad
The lies of Bush-world have, in fact, bankrupted the US Treasury, defrauded the elderly (to the advantage of corporate contributors), seriously harmed our Armed Forces, violated his oath to 'preserve, protect and defend the Constitution' and, oh yes, took us TO WAR against a country that did not attack us.
The above should not be considered a comprehensive list. So, madmarine, a little perspective, please.
Had your party anything of value to offer the American people, you would be running the show. Your not. Get over it. Perhaps next election cycle your turn will come again. If so, then I will not be a happy camper, but I won't accuse your leadership of all the vileness that you continue to toss the Republican way.
You see, I am a more optimistic about our collective leadership. I think that most people in office desire to do the best they can under the circumstances no matter who is in power. I think this of Democrats and Republicans. Some do a better job than others, but still they are doing their best. Some are corrupt and should be prosecuted and tossed out of office, Republican or Democrat.
So, that's my "little perspective" Dr Lavine.
Regards,Mad
I disagree that 'the American people' decided the election. While Bush is trying to gain dismissal of a lawsuit filed in Ohio challenging the legitimacy of the election results ( http://wtop.com/index.php?sid=346261&nid=213 ), the fact is that the challenges are continuing and indeed growing. There is much evidence of, at a minimum, a failure of elections officials to allow registered voters to exercise their voting rights (search the web on 'Blackwell' if by some chance you are not aware of this in the Ohio elections; here in Florida I read *many* accounts in the local papers from those who were unable to vote). This is yet one more facet of the 'Culture of Corruption' - furthering the class divisions. Even when people were able to vote, there was no paper trail on most of the electronic voting machines, thereby making recounts impossible.
If you *really* want to discuss the election of 2000, when the Supreme Court appointed Bush president, halting the recount in Florida, and the election in 2004, when I believe the prime focus of the fraud was in Ohio (although plenty was still festering here in Florida) I'll try to spend some time responding to your comments. No guarantees, as (like much of the American public fortunate enough to have a job) I work more than 40 hours a week, and sometimes just need to get some rest.
The point is that while you believe that Bush was elected, many of us see this instead as the 2nd time that Bush stole an election. Call it sour grapes or water under the bridge or whatever, but it is not over. For too long, Democrats (and Americans in general) have been willing to forget wrongdoing after a few months or years. No more!
As for 'most people in office' ...we agree ...to a point. I do believe that people are basically good. There are many Republicans I respect, some are family, and some (like you) I consider friends. There are plenty of Democrats that I don't respect (but there are more Republicans ;-). While I do think that Clinton did a lot of good, I share your disdain for the man's personal morals. Where we perhaps diverge is that I believe that the temptations to those at the TOP of the power structure are many, and I believe that those currently in charge have succumbed to the most despicable form of greed ...dishonest acts resulting in personal benefit while harming others - at this point resulting in the deaths of thousands of people.
As for the parties in general, my views are much closer to those of the Green Party than to the Democratic or Republican parties. Unfortunately, we are - and may for some time remain - a 2 party system.
The Supreme Court, based on decisions of the Appellate and finally US Supreme Court, acted illegally in the first place. That's why the whole mess started in the first place. And by the way, since the majority of Supremes were liberal appointees, why didn't they vote with the Florida Supremes? And what about the recounts? Didn't the majority of them have Bush winning anyway? And what about the military absentee ballots that weren't counted for a variety of reasons, why were they disenfranchised? Let's get real here. Voting ain't perfect. As long as it isn't, we are going to have problems. I know I'm not happy with the way the courts here decided in favor of the current Governor, but I'm not raising hell about it.
And the part that really gets my goat is the notion that Bush went into Iraq for personal gain. What is up with that? Where's the proof? I read alot of "believe" but not facts. If there were facts, everybody, Republicans included would be revolting. Do you honestly think that I would condone that kind of action? Sheesh.
And by the way, the unemployment rate is at 4.7%. The lowest rate in 4 1/2 years. So, there are plenty of Americans fortunate enough to have a job. Again, it looks like somebody is doing something right.
Regards,Mad
Voting is not perfect. That does not mean that we should just let it go. It needs to be fixed. If you believe that there was something wrong with the outcome of the Washington State governor race - if it is more than just not *liking* the outcome - then you damn well SHOULD raise hell about it. There was dishonesty involved in the placement of Bush into the White House and that is why I am raising hell about it. I didn't LIKE that Reagan was elected, but I did believe that he was honestly elected, so no screaming.
After the 9/11 attacks, there was actually a period of time when I (gasp) was supporting Bush ...until evidence started surfacing about holes in the conspiracy theory being pushed by his administration ...the theory that a group of Arabs gained impressive piloting skills and managed to fly planes quite precisely into the trade towers. That the towers collapsed in 8.4 seconds, the same amount of time that it would take for a brick to free fall from the top with no resistance, yet we are to believe that each successive floor was broken by the impact of the floors above, somehow with no energy being expended and zero time taken for the integrity of the structure to be compromised. ...that one of these highly skilled Arab amateur pilots could fly a plane barely above the ground and slam into the Pentagon ...into the side that happened to have the fewest number of people inside, leaving a hole far smaller than the plane, that there was no wreckage because the plane was 'vaporized', yet the bodies were identified by fingerprints. Then the official 'investigation' ignores this (and more) evidence, refuses to hear testimony from Willy Rodriguez and others who worked at the New York Trade Center every day and were there and survived and wanted to testify .......There is WAY too much that doesn't add up, and this is a big part of why I believe that Dubya deceives.
Note that I stated that I 'believe' that Dubya deceives. According to our laws, one must stand trial to be declared guilty. So it does seem to me that there is much evidence, that this evidence is coming to the forefront, and that the dominos are starting to fall. Tom DeLay was the darling of the Republican party ...until the indictment. Things change as discoveries are made. The fact that 'everybody, Republicans included' are *not* revolting does not mean that the demand for more honesty and integrity is not forthcoming. Bush's support rating is down to 42% ...obviously there are some who are no longer happy.
Bush and Iraq: Well, there are several possibilities, none of which have ANYTHING to do with an Iraq-911 connection ...even though Bush has been uttering Saddam and 911 in adjacent sentences for years (not outright stating that there's a connection, but most definitely implying a connection). So one possibility is pure monetary gain through inheritance, and I've already mentioned that (Carlyle Group and Bush Sr). Another possibility is the long-standing connection between the Bush family, the Saudis, and Texas oil. Then there's the far stranger possibility that Bush sees himself as anointed to help bring about Armageddon. Hey, you tell me; the bottom line is that INVADING IRAQ MADE NO LOGICAL SENSE! Iraq was NO threat to us. There was NO connection between Iraq and 911. There were NO WMDs and there was intelligence discrediting the theory of WMDs. So I'm trying to figure out just what the reason is that we now have 2200+ US men and women who have given their lives, and hundreds of thousands more who have bravely and honorably served in Iraq and are serving today, approximately 17000 wounded.
I do not believe that you would condone any type of action that you believed was dishonorable. I do believe that it is hard to accept that someone on whom you had pinned high hopes to restore dignity and integrity to the White House may, in fact, turn out to be far worse than the Clinton you hated so much.
The unemployment rate is at 4.7%. In Florida it's 3.3%. Pretty great numbers. Unless you live in Michigan and used to have a UAW job at an auto factory and are now working at Wal-Mart. Then you’re employed, but not nearly as ‘well-employed’ as you used to be. But if it’s as rosy as you’re implying, then those 30,000 soon-to-be ex-employees from Ford have nothing to fear. Tossing out just the unemployment rate tells a partial story. In my county in Florida, real wages are up 1.4%, so that's good. In King county in Washington, real wages are down 7.3%, so that's not so good. Arlington VA has real wages up 8.7%, so I guess that's the place to be. There’s a lot of variance, but the fact is that Americans are saving less (negative savings …it was negative 0.5% last year) and going in hock more ($11.4 trillion in household debt – yee-ow!). The unemployment numbers don't reflect those who have had to take a decrease in position and wage in order to at least be working.
So no, I do not think that Mr Bush has done something right. And I certainly don't credit him for there not having been another 911-type attack. Rather, we ALL need to push for a REAL investigation into just how much was known before the 911 attack. It's a lot easier to get a country behind a war when we are attacked, that tactic has been used before (again I reference LBJ and Gulf of Tonkin, and possible FDR knowledge of Pearl Harbor). And we need to push for support of our local emergency responders. As stated so well by Senator Durkin at the National Press Club (26 Jan 2006), "Homeland Security must begin with homeTOWN security". It does not begin by invading Iraq.
I value honesty tremendously. I would someday like to see a White House inhabited by a man or woman I felt was demonstrating the level of honesty and integrity that the Presidency warrants.
MM, have you read the Conyers report 'What went Wrong in Ohio'? It's a quick read.
This is a government composed of people who detest government. They are superb at politics and stink at governing.
On Bush's watch, we've lost Free Speech, the US Treasury, the military, and New Orleans. America is today's Roman Empire - fat, corrupt, arrogant, and propped up by delusions that are increasingly being exposed as hollow.
Bush, Rove, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are war criminals, and their names will be cursed for generations. You are backing a losing team, buddy.
Thanks for the thoughtful reponses. Joe, I know that you spent considerable time and thought in composing a response. It is especially appreciated. Although I disagree with your analysis, I do respect your rigor.
I do want to point out that UAL workers made good wages for a long time. Unfortunately for them, they aren't producing products at a price that people want to buy. This is the essence of capitalism. There are several alternatives to capitalism. Many countries have tried them. Not a lot of them left at this point. One of those concepts that sounds good on paper but fails in the real world.
Dr. Lavine:
I did read the Conyers report. Since it was compiled by a bunch of Democrat staffers, it doesn't hold alot of credence with me. I'm sure the same would be true for you if a bunch of Republican staffers produced a similar finding. A report from an independent body would be much more convincing.
We've lost free speech? What are you exercising now? How is the government infringing on your right to say your piece? Are you expecting to be arrested at any moment for speaking your mind? Please let me know. I'm close and will post bail. Or are you expecting to be "disappeared" like so many of our fellow citizens?
I wasn't aware that we lost the military. Were did they go? Did someone make off with the Treasury as well? Should I still send my quarterly payments in?
I assure you, I am not your "buddy".
War criminals? Hmm...... These are the folks that tossed out the Taliban from Afghanistan and Sadaam from Iraq. Both brutal regimes that murdered millions during their reigns of terror. Should we be pleased about that outcome or not? Would the world be better off if they had been left in place?
And I love the Roman Empire analogy! Rome was obsessed with conquering lands. We, on the other hand, don't wage wars to gain territory. The last time I recall us getting land out of a war was the Spanish-American War. As I recall, we got the Phillipines and Gitmo. Today we have Gitmo.
I'm not fat, corrupt, arrogant (well not egregiously so) and I don't think I'm deluded. This is a great country that attracts millions from other countries, both legally and illegally. They come here because of our sloth? They appreciate what this country means to the rest of the world. We are the most generous, compassionate, and free country on earth. We have lots of faults but have many more positive qualities. You might remember that while your exercising your right to free speech to trash your country and countrymen.
Regards,Mad
War Criminals? Yes, by all accepted definitions.
We are 'not obsessed with conquering lands'? Then why are we building permanent bases in Iraq?
Good of you to bring up the Spanish-American War. You obviously forgot about the 1846 Mexican War, where we also attacked a soverign nation, with the intent to steal Texas, California, New Mexico, and as much of Mexico as we could grab. As a marine (I'm guessing), you certainly have heard the phrase about us being in the 'Halls of Montezuma'. Look it up.
I agree this is a great country, but our government has been stolen by a gang of thieves, and it's beginning to seem more and more like Spain in 1936 (a much closer analogy to Germany in 1933).
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm says it all.
We can only agree on one thing - you ARE truly Mad. Adios, amigo.
Didn't take you long to devolve your arguements to an ad hominem attack. Typical!
Sure Sheehan was arrested, released and apologized to by the Capitol police. The rest of the story is that the wife of a Republican representative was asked to leave as well. Both were ejected because of decorum rules, that are well known. The only difference was that the wife of the rep wasn't arrested. Duh. Had she been the wife of a Democratic rep, she wouldn't have been arrested either. I don't find this really chilling. Nobody has prevented Sheehan from venting her speen at the drop of a hat in any other forum.
BTW Marine is a proper noun and therefore should be capitalized. We are certainly proud of our contribution to this great nation including the phrasing in the Marine Corps hymn. Here is what we are made of: http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/burghardt.asp . These are the folks that are ensuring your right to spout nonsense!
Regards,Mad
I don't believe I have ever denied the heroism of our soldiers, nor do I underestimate the profound depth of their committment, bravery and determination.
However, help me understand the link you see between my Free Speech rights and the incredible sacrifices of their lives and limbs, in this pre-emptive, incompetently-managed, highly-profitable war.
Re: Cindy Sheehan - you don't see a difference between one person being asked to leave, and another person being dragged out in handcuffs and arrested because she was warm and unzipped her jacket? Hint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime
In an earlier post, you said 'Did someone make off with the Treasury as well?'. Hate to break it to you, but the answer is "yes, and it wasn't Cindy Sheehan".
See: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ and http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_05272004
Good luck to you, sir. I know you wouldn't be here if you didn't care deeply about these matters. I care deeply about them, too.
The link between your free speech and the brave troops that are protecting them is very simple. Were it not for them and their efforts around the world you would be concerned about your life, not your free speech. They are fighting terrorists right now over there, keeping them busy dying so that there are fewer trying to come here and kill you. BTW, have you noticed how embracing of free speech the Muslim world is. You should really thank G-d that you were blessed to be born and live here.
Did you fail to notice that Sheehan received an apology by the "Gestapo". I'm sure that had she been arrested in Cuba or Venezuala she would have received the same treatment. Just ask the journalists that have been.
Do you understand why this makes me uneasy?
Note the subtle phrase 'or for new programs that require additional detention space'.
THAT's what I'm talkin' about.
I know you probably have a problem with that policy. But that's one of the programs they are specifically addressing.
I saw an interview with Sada. Very interesting. He has also written a book about his experiences with Sadaam as an Iraqi air force general. A few folks are taking him and others seriously. Did any of this run in the NYT?
Regards, Mad